On conflict, love and optimism: A conversation between Akal Mohan & Mutinta Nanchengwa
Akal : Hi. You are a trained journalist, but here we are, you being shortlisted for a fiction piece. Why fiction?
Mutinta : Hi. To be honest, I’ve always preferred long elaborate stories over hard news. I’ve never really practised as a journalist, but even when I was (for school) I preferred the feature’s desk over hard news. Working in a news room can be fast paced and hitting the deadlines requires different types of skills from a writer. Fiction gives you more freedom to explore what people are thinking and feeling.
Akal: I assumed that you still practise as a journalist. I was actually ready for a good gossip about that one senior (mostly old) editor who shouts names from the door, asking for a story. Or the adrenaline that goes when the bulletin is due and your story is still incomplete. Sigh, the gossip isn’t here.
I had no access to books while growing up. How I got stories was through radio or TV, and this made me trust in journalism as a profession. Looking back now, I think at the base of this was just the ability of stories; how stories can help spread ideas. Now that you are a fiction writer, what ideas do you mostly spread in your fiction?
Mutinta: I did practise while I was in school, so I have some experience with the newsroom. The current work I do is closely related to what I studied as well. My social activism is in many ways related to journalism. So there’s still a chance for some gossip lol.
On what ideas I spread in my fiction, here is how I am going to respond: I would like to show people as they really are. I say this a lot and it sounds vague lol, but people are such a rich collection of experiences and I hope to display their hopes and fears and dreams in my stories. I want to know what makes people ‘tick’
Akal: Let’s save the gossip for a different time.
Ubwali is a literary magazine from Zambia. In her editorial note for our first issue, our editor-in-chief, Mubanga made it clear that one thing that pushed her to start this magazine was the need to create an archive of words and images that said Zambia in a way as her language and landscape. You sit as a board member on a Zambian writing cooperative. What is the cooperative about? And of what significance does it have on Zambian literature as a whole?
Mutinta: So Myaambo was created to boost literacy in Zambia. We noted that we have a lot of talented writers in the country but most people do not see writing as a viable career. Through the cooperative we hope to boost publishing and shine a light to more Zambian writers, while also showing them that writing can be a fulfilling and legitimate career.
Akal: I hope that the cooperative succeeds.
On to your story, “How it Should Have Been” I am going to start with a line that stayed with me after I read it the first time: “What am I supposed to do with all this love then?” That line made me interrogate overwhelming love(s). Have you been in a situation where you had excess love for somebody? How did you deal with it?
Mutinta: I definitely have. Love can be an overwhelming emotion and sometimes you have to teach yourself to ride the wave. Post break ups, I have had to teach myself to redirect that love to my friends and family, and pour into them as much as they do me. It can leave you feeling floored but it’s an interesting cocktail of emotions.
Akal: James Baldwin thinks, and perhaps in a different context, that love is a war. I want to hone in on the violence and beauty of love with regard to your story. Before we talk about this, curiously, are you the narrator in your story?
Mutinta: I think I am the narrator but I was hoping that my readers, especially women, can see themselves in the narrator. I think she is insecure and anxious about the weight of her love, and this creates conflicts within herself and with Trevor.
The narrator is burdened with the weight of bearing ‘all this love’ and I think to an extent that can feel like a war.
Akal: The question on whether you are the narrator was a trick one. I write too and I know how annoying it can be when with every character readers constantly want to know whether there are parts of me in them. You can read this blogpost by Rémy Ngamije on the question of how much of this is autobiography?
Anyways, now that you have said that you are the narrator, tell me more about Trevor. Is he based in Nairobi?
Mutinta: Funny you should mention that. My beta reader said she felt like she was intruding on something intimate LOL! I think that’s something that I truly enjoy about this piece, it’s raw and honest as can be.
But again, in my honesty, I’m hoping that other people who could be in a similar experience are seeing themselves in the story.
He indeed is. Trevor is based on someone that I know, but with a lot of creative liberties taken.
However, I am also hoping that readers can see their ideal man in Trevor lol. While I did describe him a little bit, I didn’t go too into detail about his facial features and so on, because I am hoping that readers can imagine their own Trevor lol. And before you ask why I chose Nairobi over any other city in the continent, here is why. My mother is from Kenya and I was lucky enough to visit Nairobi last year. I immediately fell in love with the city. I swear Kenyans put a spell on me. Even though I knew that finding faithful love in Nairobi was/is hard and also that Nairobi babes are going through it, I still wanted to risk it with ‘Trevor.’
I loved how vibrant it seemed, always busy and never sleeping. I have most always written about Lusaka, but Nairobi felt like a new story for me to write and explore. The real Trevor (name protected for his privacy lol) told me a lot of stories about Nairobi and I definitely wanted to immerse myself in that, compare it to the stories my mother has told me and my own experiences. Nairobi was also really kind to me, so that helped a lot. It felt like a second home.
I might add that since my visit I might have become slightly obsessed with Kenya. I have the bracelet and Nyashinski is a staple on my playlists too😂.
Akal: This explains why the story oscillates between Nairobi, Kenya and Lusaka, Zambia. As I read on, I was honestly looking hard for a conflict. My need to spot the conflict was because of something Troy Onyango during a workshop at Lolwe Academy insisted, “every story must have a conflict.” Only later did I realise that long distance is the conflict in your story. Was it deliberate? Do you even consider it a conflict in your story?
Mutinta: You know, I struggle to write conflict in stories. I can weave the most beautiful narrative but what is the conflict? In this one, the long distance is definitely a conflict between Trevor and the narrator, but also the fear she has with figuring out her love. I’m not sure if that aspect came through, but I think the narrator (not me!) is dealing with a lot of insecurities about herself and her feelings towards love. I used the motif of ‘feeling it in her chest’ to somehow show how deeply she’s feeling and experiencing her emotions. The experience of emotions, and her life unfolding before her was also somewhat central to my story. I felt like she was lost at the beginning of the story but ends up being more sure of herself towards the end.
Akal: The motif is of my interest, Mutinta. In reading your story, it felt like you were particular in elaborating or explaining rather how love writes its pain and pleasures on our bodies. I enjoyed how you shaped your language to make the body a character as well. How did you learn this?
Mutinta: I hope I don’t sound corny, but writing feels like an extension of myself. When I was learning to write stories, I was always told to include all 5 senses. Even before I type my first word, I ask myself, how does my character feel at this point in the story, what can they taste and why do they taste it. Sometimes I get so immersed in the story that I start to feel my characters emotions and body language, and I guess that translates onto the page. I always try to aim for my readers to feel like they’re sitting in the room with the characters or are the characters themselves. If my character is in pain, I need the reader to feel that pain too.
Akal: You achieved it. I felt the pain when your narrator was desiring the love shared by other couples. I felt the pleasure of Trevor tracing her ankles. I felt more to the point that it felt euphoric, I definitely must go back to it whenever I want to inspire my body to certain feelings.
Final question for you, your title, “How it Should Be” suggests alternation. It means one thing is happening in place of another. Why did you choose this as a title?
Mutinta: I would take this back to two of my closing lines.
At one point I say, This is a Life of Love and my favourite lyric ever, from Swahili Nation’s song Hakuna Matata, where they sing kila kitu kitawa sawa.
I love the idea that everything will be alright and that that means that is a life full of love. And for me, in a relationship, that’s how it should be.
It also kind of quiets the narrator’s fears for her daughter Hadassah. She wants things to be good for her, and because things worked out well for Trevor and her, she is feeling this is how it should be for Hadassah (am I over thinking my own story 😂)
Akal: You probably are. It’s been nice talking to you Mutinta. Let me know the next time you are visiting ‘Trevor.’
Mutinta: It’s been a pleasure Mohan.
I cannot wait to experience the beauty that is Nairobi again.
Take care and have a good evening
AKAL MOHAN is a Kenyan short story writer, essayist and poet. He has previously been shortlisted for the Africa Writers’ Award in poetry. Akal is also a 2023 Idembeka Creative Writing fellow and Ibua Novel Manuscript workshop attendee. In 2022, he was a recipient of two digital residencies organised by the University of East Anglia, one of which resulted in a short story collection that he contributed to. Akal reads in trust and writes in faith. He is an editorial assistant at Ubwali Literary Magazine.
MUTINTA NANCHENGWA is an avid reader and writer. She sits as an ordinary board member on the Zambian writing cooperative, Myaambo, and has twice been long-listed for the Kalemba Short Story Prize. Despite high-fantasy being her favourite genre, Mutinta’s writing can be considered genre-bending, as long as it reflects how beautifully complicated human beings are. Mutinta trained as a journalist, and is an advocate for digital and media rights. She is shortlisted for the inaugural Ubwali Hope Prize for her short story How it Should Be.
